Cloaking Devices

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Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Esrom » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:50 am

I've noticed a lot of Sims using the cloaking device in recent years.

Does anyone have information to share on the technical specs for the various cloaking devices ie. Klingon or Romulan?

What modifications would be needed to make them work properly on Starfleet Vessels?
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby harmon » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:53 pm

I don't have specs... but Federation had built a mostly working phase cloak. it was a TNG episode Pegasus I believe, if they can do that, they can probably build there own cloak, without needing to go with Romulan, or Klingon.

All that being said, the Federation already HAD a romulan Cloaking Device in DS9, that the Romulans let them put on the Defiant. So reverse engineering it probably wouldn't have been an issue.

Then again, the Klingons are Allies of the Federation, so they might be willing to give the Federation the specs on there cloaking device...

I'd say it's probably more of a up to the host kind of thing.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby Ramsay » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:02 am

the Issue involves Legality's The Federation Signed a Treaty in early 24th century called the Treaty_of_Algeron Banning development and use of cloaking devices there in the Pegasus cloak was a big no no Riker even admitted so. Defiant Got her Cloak because the Romulans were willing too play ball and give the Fed who was leading the fight against the invasion from the Dominion a single unit on conditions.

The Hosts make the Call on Whether there back story is Algeron compliant or not.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby harmon » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:29 pm

I actually meant to add that in my little bit... had just finished working 13 hours, so my head wasn't all there...

In the case of my game, the Treaty is basically null, and went out the window when the universe went to hell, and the Romulans backed out of the treaty.

Like you basically eluded to... it's up to the hosts.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Who » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:07 pm

The case with the Defiant was that they were only allowed to use it on the other side of the wormhole, at least legally. Of course depending upon how far along a SIM is chances are that if they're after Nemesis that things would have changed, since there was the new Romulan Alliance, the alliance with the Klingons was already effectively gone. It's entirely likely that the Federation would've been allowed cloaking technology.

That said in a sim I was in that's now long gone (SFOL's USS Endeavour) the engineering team had built up a cloaking system that was supposed to be able to cloak the ship without actually breaking the Treaty of Algeron, not sure if that was accurate or not, but it wasn't similar to the Romulan or Klingon technology, nor the phased cloak used in TNG.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby harmon » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:18 pm

I've used a Stealth tech before, arguably it wasn't cloak since the ship didn't vanish, it just kept the ship from showing up on sensors, other vessels would have to make visual contact in order to actually spot it. And the ship was painted black, to make that harder.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Hawg » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:37 pm

So basically it was a B-2 Bomber? :)
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby Fate stay » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:08 pm

B2 is dark grey not black.
TNG stealth ship
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Bri » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:27 pm

What I haven't really seen defined is what kind of "cloaking device" is actually banned in the treaty. I know at least in a couple video games, you have the USS Incursion with it's holographic masking system. Of course, video games aren't canon (most of the time). Regardless of the treaty though, you have to ask if the Federation would even use cloaking devices anyway. I don't think Starfleet would really massively employ them anyway given their primary mission. Maybe if there was a war and they had a massive mobilization.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby Ramsay » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:21 pm

ST: Insurection had a ship use a Holographic cloak so It's hard too say. For star fleet the best and most likely use of a stealth would be observation of cultures not yet warp capable but developed enough too have a detection system other wise in conflict stealth would always be a good thing.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Lensman » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:38 pm

Despite the marvelous scene in ST4: The Voyage Home (and the fact that the plot would have fallen apart otherwise), it must be noted that a cloaking device DOES NOT generate invisibility in the eyeball sense! Such a thing is entirely redundant; a vehicle moving faster than the light you use to see it by would be invisible anyway. What cloaks do is baffle the sensors used to detect vessels; in that, they're more kin to modern stealth and electronic countermeasures.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Hawg » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:57 am

I'm not sure where you are coming up with that. There are dozens of times in different episodes & movies where we have seen Klingon & Romulan ships de-cloak onscreen, and it clearly goes from not visible to the naked eye, to visible.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Who » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:54 am

Yeah, the cloaking devices are for use when you're not traveling at warp speed, if all it did was baffle the sensors than all anyone would need to do was look out of one of the many standard windows on the ships and they'd suddenly find the cloaked ship with no problems. I even remember an episode of TNG (I think) where a Romulan Warbird decloaked right in front of a shuttlecraft that has windows right in the front, I find it highly unlikely that they wouldn't have seen that sitting there if it weren't cloaked "in the eyeball sense"
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby Ramsay » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:48 pm

In the Cannon Of Trek It was always a near "total cloak" meaning optical, Heat, Electromagnetic..ecta..ecta. From a cannon perspective.
there are however Key weakness of the cloak in Trek mostly being like in the real world looking for those issues of tuning and proper managment of emissions. Like killing the engines and whispering on a submarine cloaking but leaving the lights burning on a star ship is a kick me sign.
Power in DS9 for example The defiant being basically a Star fleet Hotrod had such a monster power system for such a little ship that when cloaked in close proximity too the enemy, she had too go too a "Quick Quiet" or "Grey mode" cutting power too every thing but essential systems. accidental emissions like plasma ( ST6 the undiscovered country) and radiation (ST6, STng Insurection)Also ships do cloak at warp but Cloaked ships at warp produce a slight subspace variance (STNG Tinman). Ships of the 23rd century that can fire well cloaked stood a good chance of a kill but sensors of the 24th would have rendered such a poorer, option unless your ship was like the Simitar with the massive power capacity of also maintaining shields well cloaked as well as a Cloak of more advanced technology presumably a hybrid of Romulan, Dominion ( the Simitar strongly resembles a Dominion ship) and possibly borg..
Out side of passive techniques taking advantage of these weaknesses. active techniques like graviton nets and antiprotons beams and quantum beacons.
Presumably Phase cloaks also have weaknesses of there own but Cannon as never shown them on screen. More advanced stealth technology seen in Voy: Endgame on Adm. Janeway's Shuttle however one would think would be be a phase cloak and the Borg captured that.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloaking_device.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby Fate stay » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:52 pm

I think We can separate Cloaking devices generationally like real stealth.
Generation one the original Is the Sulaban style as well as that used in the ENT Romulan mine field.
Gen two those used in the Romulan ships of Ent and likely would have been those used in the Earth Romulan War.
Then three Prime being those seen first in TOS Balance of Terror
With variants being
3A three Alternate being any seen in the new movies.
Gen 3.5 employed by the Romulans in the TOS Enterprise incident
3.5 Export being handed over too the Klingons and seen in ST3 the Search for Spock, this one was however I think rigged too produce a visual distortion or as I like too call it "Predator blur" For Romulan Gunners too aim at. Scotty presumably by having already worked on a top of the line Romulan model corrected that in the "HMS Bounty" And the Klingons then figured it out on there own.
Gen 3.5X would be the fire well cloaked one.
Gen 4 would show up in the early 24th and be standard on Klingon and Romulan ships of the 24th century with improvements form that point on being in phases.
I consider the Holo Cloak on the Holo not a true cloak but a sort of gen one Well the Cloak seen on the Simitar is no doubt a Gen 6 Well phase Cloak is gen 5 although not really improved over each other the more represent two very different lines of development one absolute stealth the other a knife in the back.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby FSF Lensman » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:20 pm

Starship 'windows' are only clear places in the ship at sublight speeds...at warp they become a transmissive viewscreen that filters the view into what you see. In most of the instances in canon you're likely thinking of a starship window was involved.
Think about it...a supersonic plane is ahead of its sound, shouldn't a superluminal vehicle be ahead of its visual image? It's a reasonable extrapolation from physics we know. Granted, our heroes need to SEE the enemy or not based on plot movement, so the 'visual' aspect of the cloak is used.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby The Writer » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:15 am

In Eternity Mythos, 2 years after the Romulan Star Empire fell from the Hobius Star Nova and the conclusion of the Fringe Wars (Star Trek Eternity Season 1) the Federation began to install cloak field generators on smaller starships, Akiras, Steamrunners, Nova, Runabouts. They couldn't apply it to larger starships, such as the Galaxy, Colonial, or Phanton Classes because of the power problem as the generators needed more power in order to stabilize a cloak field around a ship that size. With the power draw, the ship in this regard could be tracked easily by sensor sweeps. Starfleet came up with a semi-cloaked field technology that is in line with modern day stealth technology, as a starship operating with this type of cloak was invisible to sensors but not from visual contact.

However, during development of the Cerberus Class, Engineers solved the power issue by foregoing install or use of a cloak field generator. Instead, the ship built used a Tachyon Phase Technology which reacted with the ship's outer nano-weave layer. Each individual cell of the fiber would react to a tachyon particle generated by the ship's tachyon core. This reaction caused the weave to phase out of sync with the multi-spectrum visual and sensor pings traditionally used in tracking or locating a starship in a three dimensional space. These cells would hold the tachyon particle until the subroutine "tells," the cells to disperse the energy. With very little energy needed to maintain the cloak, the ship is practically invisible, and, since there isn't a draw on the ship's systems, the ship can fire projectiles (torpedoes missiles), but not fire from the phaser arrays. This tech also allows the Cerberus to remain in cloak while in Warp as the system temporally phases the ship rather than wraps a bending field around it.

The first, "official," Tachyon Core was built by Lieutenant Commander Rick Barlow, Cerberus Project Leader. However, the technology came from the spoils of the Fringe War, which dealt heavily in reverse engineered Borg technology and Third Generation Nano-technology*

*Third Generation Nano-Technology is the developmental stage used by the Followers of Nero (the Narada was built using this technology), which is derived from Second Generation Nano-Technology which was the previous generation used by the Borg Collective in early 2300s (Voyager, ST: First Contact). First Generation Nano-Technology was used by the Progenitors, a machine only race that grew beyond itself after the Harbinger (V'Ger) found the Conduit (Humanity, The Creator) (Star Trek, the Motion Picture).
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby Ramsay » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:14 pm

right your thinking along the lines of the Picard Maneuver. Where in a Ship will vanish form sight on passing the light speed boundary however.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Picard_Maneuver
But as Data showed there are still ways around that. and If two objects are going at the same speed then they will be able in some way too sense each other. although the visual aspect of the cloak may be redundant presumably it's other effects of the Cloak would be of use and the Visual aspect would be maintained for the function of enabling rapid shifts in speed IE dropping out of warp.
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby harmon » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:07 pm

Does anyone else feel like we just passed into a Quantum Physics class or something?

I like the way the Cerberus class did it, ((though didn't that ship get destroyed?))

What I'm noticing here is it seems like there are about 100 different ways to deal with this depending on the situation... I like it!
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Re: Cloaking Devices

Postby The Writer » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:52 pm

lol, so suddenly in Season 2? Thats just not my style Mitch :wink:
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